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Goddess
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Colin William
Guest
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 Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Goddess wrote:
Interesting. A little condescending in tone, I thought, but it does
address the problems facing the organization.
I don't think I knew membership had declined 1% this last year; I wonder
how much of that had to do with the dues increase?
Colin |
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rich.hopkins@gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Wow - I'm terrifically offended by this article. The average age at the
conference was far lower than 65 for one. I saw many 30 and under, and
the international influence was strong.
The international conference in and of itself is not representative of
the membership, anyway - its representative of who has the money/time
to go. The average member does not.
TM has its issues, no question. This article, however, does not truly
address them as much as simply try to smear the reputation of an
outstanding organization.
Rich Hopkins
2006 World Championship Third Place WINNER
www.richhopkins.net
Colin William wrote:
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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I wasn't offended so much, but it did make me roll my eyeballs. I guess
I'm used to the things they write in the Post these days. The writers
for the Post are all minimum wage 20 somethings who think they're SO
hip. It's always funny to read articles when they review something
that appeals to people who are middle age and up. Apparently, it just
can't be hip if the audience is mostly over 30... and if a 65 year old
is competing, surely that mens the whole organization is deteriorating!
Puhleeeeze....
You should see the other things the Post deems "uncool." The snide
comments they make about home ownership especially amuse me, it's
obvious those reporters have sour grapes because they can barely afford
apartments in the cheaper sections of town--- oh excuse me I mean the
COOL sections of town, of course.
Actually I agree that TM doesn't have that much appeal to youngsters.
As I see it, the time most people realize they can benefit from
Toastmasters training comes when they reach mid-thirties. They've
worked their way to where they're ready to make the big leap from
working alone to being a team or project leader. Suddenly they need to
make presentations to clients or upper management, or they are promoted
to a supervisory job.
I really appreciate this when I watched Rory Vadem compete. He has a
lot of skill and raw talent, but it was obvious that he will improve as
he gets more life experience (as well as a little more time at
Toastmasters).
Another truth is that the people who stay with Toastmasters tend to
keep going through retirement, thus explaining
why increasing numbers of people are 55+. Also, retirees have the most
time to really get involved, to develop a contest winning speech or do
things like conventions and officer positions. Personally, I'm glad to
have an activity that I'll still be enjoying when I'm 65, even if some
wet-behind-the-ears reporters makes snide remarks about me. And,
somehow I don't think TM is dying out because the current crop of 20
year olds don't have time for it yet... we'll be
here when they're finally old enough for it.
So, I don't think the fact that we appeal to 40 year olds more than we
do to 20 year olds is causing the 1 percent decrease in membership. IMO
last year's 50 percent dues increase had a lot to do with it.
Betsy |
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Michael K. Heney
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Got to agree with Betsy - I'm 49, and I felt old. Of course, Charlie Keane
was there - and at 100, he does bring the average up a bit 
(Charlie was the District 38 Governor 2-3 years ago - and had his
District Distinguished that year. Not bad for 97 years old ...)
The folks in the local-to-DC districts (36 and 27) are not at all happy
(I've gotten a LOT of e-mail on this), and we're touching base with
WHQ on a response.
In article <1156789252.364271.147280@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, betsy_in_va wrote:
| Quote: | I wasn't offended so much, but it did make me roll my eyeballs. I guess
I'm used to the things they write in the Post these days. The writers
for the Post are all minimum wage 20 somethings who think they're SO
hip. It's always funny to read articles when they review something
that appeals to people who are middle age and up. Apparently, it just
can't be hip if the audience is mostly over 30... and if a 65 year old
is competing, surely that mens the whole organization is deteriorating!
Puhleeeeze....
You should see the other things the Post deems "uncool." The snide
comments they make about home ownership especially amuse me, it's
obvious those reporters have sour grapes because they can barely afford
apartments in the cheaper sections of town--- oh excuse me I mean the
COOL sections of town, of course.
Actually I agree that TM doesn't have that much appeal to youngsters.
As I see it, the time most people realize they can benefit from
Toastmasters training comes when they reach mid-thirties. They've
worked their way to where they're ready to make the big leap from
working alone to being a team or project leader. Suddenly they need to
make presentations to clients or upper management, or they are promoted
to a supervisory job.
I really appreciate this when I watched Rory Vadem compete. He has a
lot of skill and raw talent, but it was obvious that he will improve as
he gets more life experience (as well as a little more time at
Toastmasters).
Another truth is that the people who stay with Toastmasters tend to
keep going through retirement, thus explaining
why increasing numbers of people are 55+. Also, retirees have the most
time to really get involved, to develop a contest winning speech or do
things like conventions and officer positions. Personally, I'm glad to
have an activity that I'll still be enjoying when I'm 65, even if some
wet-behind-the-ears reporters makes snide remarks about me. And,
somehow I don't think TM is dying out because the current crop of 20
year olds don't have time for it yet... we'll be
here when they're finally old enough for it.
So, I don't think the fact that we appeal to 40 year olds more than we
do to 20 year olds is causing the 1 percent decrease in membership. IMO
last year's 50 percent dues increase had a lot to do with it.
Betsy
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Goddess
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Now, now
Aren't we being a *bit* sensitive about this?
I did write to the author to correct the obvious factual errors,
especially about the toastmasters.org web site. But really, do we
*care* about this particular slant?
Can't we take an "evaluation" from an outsider? This is how the
organization came across to her.
Ruth
Michael K. Heney wrote:
| Quote: | Got to agree with Betsy - I'm 49, and I felt old. Of course, Charlie Keane
was there - and at 100, he does bring the average up a bit
(Charlie was the District 38 Governor 2-3 years ago - and had his
District Distinguished that year. Not bad for 97 years old ...)
The folks in the local-to-DC districts (36 and 27) are not at all happy
(I've gotten a LOT of e-mail on this), and we're touching base with
WHQ on a response.
In article <1156789252.364271.147280@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, betsy_in_va wrote:
I wasn't offended so much, but it did make me roll my eyeballs. I guess
I'm used to the things they write in the Post these days. The writers
for the Post are all minimum wage 20 somethings who think they're SO
hip. It's always funny to read articles when they review something
that appeals to people who are middle age and up. Apparently, it just
can't be hip if the audience is mostly over 30... and if a 65 year old
is competing, surely that mens the whole organization is deteriorating!
Puhleeeeze....
You should see the other things the Post deems "uncool." The snide
comments they make about home ownership especially amuse me, it's
obvious those reporters have sour grapes because they can barely afford
apartments in the cheaper sections of town--- oh excuse me I mean the
COOL sections of town, of course.
Actually I agree that TM doesn't have that much appeal to youngsters.
As I see it, the time most people realize they can benefit from
Toastmasters training comes when they reach mid-thirties. They've
worked their way to where they're ready to make the big leap from
working alone to being a team or project leader. Suddenly they need to
make presentations to clients or upper management, or they are promoted
to a supervisory job.
I really appreciate this when I watched Rory Vadem compete. He has a
lot of skill and raw talent, but it was obvious that he will improve as
he gets more life experience (as well as a little more time at
Toastmasters).
Another truth is that the people who stay with Toastmasters tend to
keep going through retirement, thus explaining
why increasing numbers of people are 55+. Also, retirees have the most
time to really get involved, to develop a contest winning speech or do
things like conventions and officer positions. Personally, I'm glad to
have an activity that I'll still be enjoying when I'm 65, even if some
wet-behind-the-ears reporters makes snide remarks about me. And,
somehow I don't think TM is dying out because the current crop of 20
year olds don't have time for it yet... we'll be
here when they're finally old enough for it.
So, I don't think the fact that we appeal to 40 year olds more than we
do to 20 year olds is causing the 1 percent decrease in membership. IMO
last year's 50 percent dues increase had a lot to do with it.
Betsy
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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| Quote: | Aren't we being a *bit* sensitive about this?
Well, I can appreciate that a front page article that portrays an |
organization as dwindling and out of style, and appealling only to a
diminishing crowd of older people can be damaging.
Why? Corporate sponsors could see this as a reason to pull their
sponsorship. WHQ will need to respond to this quickly or potentially
lose money... and who needs that sort of headache?
So even though I personally was not offended, I am disturbed that the
editors would allow such a snide review to be placed on the front page.
That shows either poor judgment or possibly malice. |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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| Quote: | I did write to the author to correct the obvious factual errors
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I do hope you told them how to spell Rodger Baker's name. Speaking as a
person who worked as a reporter in the 70s and 80s, I am very
embarrassed that a reporter from the Washington Post would not spell a
name correctly. I can defend snide remarks, but not spelling names
incorrectly. Their standards have fallen. |
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Goddess
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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yep, I pointed that out too.
I haven't received a response yet - I wrote directly to the author via
their web page.
betsy_in_va wrote:
| Quote: | I did write to the author to correct the obvious factual errors
I do hope you told them how to spell Rodger Baker's name. Speaking as a
person who worked as a reporter in the 70s and 80s, I am very
embarrassed that a reporter from the Washington Post would not spell a
name correctly. I can defend snide remarks, but not spelling names
incorrectly. Their standards have fallen. |
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Regina Litman
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Michael K. Heney wrote:
| Quote: | Got to agree with Betsy - I'm 49, and I felt old. Of course, Charlie Keane
was there - and at 100, he does bring the average up a bit
(Charlie was the District 38 Governor 2-3 years ago - and had his
District Distinguished that year. Not bad for 97 years old ...)
The folks in the local-to-DC districts (36 and 27) are not at all happy
(I've gotten a LOT of e-mail on this), and we're touching base with
WHQ on a response.
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Although we in District 38 would have loved to have had Charlie Keane,
he's from District 31.
--
Please note my correct email address:
rslitman [at-sign] infionline [dot] net |
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PlatformPrep
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Hack job. However, it is still a step up from the papers in Toronto,
who following the TIWCPS wrote as if TI was an auxilary organization of
Scientology.
skc
Goddess wrote:
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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| Quote: | So even though I personally was not offended, I am disturbed that the
editors would allow such a snide review to be placed on the front page.
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To clarify, it was the front page of the Style section--all front pages
are damaging if you see someone reading it on the Metro, or find it
left behind on a table in the cafeteria. |
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Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Betsy said ... > So even though I personally was not offended, I am
disturbed that the
| Quote: | editors would allow such a snide review to be placed on the front page.
That shows either poor judgment or possibly malice.
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.... or, more likely, that it was an incredibly slow news day!
Funny you should mention the average age of the Post reporters. As I was
reading the article, I was wondering about that.
However, there are some facts that are true. Like the organization's
complete lack of touch with the world of technology in which we all live ...
except when we are at Toastmasters!
It was also interesting to read that there were 1600 people at the contest.
That is the number that TI will use as to convention attendance ... although
it is a highly inflated number, with a lot of "contest only" attendees.
Probably around 1200 max at the convention itself. Which is a declining
number.
And a drop of 1% membership in any year (dues increase or not) is a serious
indicator of trouble ahead ... trouble with maintaining clubs, trouble with
decreased income at all levels, and more.
And Ruth, it's great to hear from you ... even if only through the NG! How
the heck are you, my favorite Goddess?!!!!!
Susan.
Susan Niven, DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster
Langley BC Canada
susan 14 c AT shaw dot ca (this is a hint, Ruth!) |
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p c
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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Hi Susan. I think you mentioned at one time in this ng your are also
involved in Rotary. Is this correct.
I am considering approaching local Rotary clubs to let them know about
Toasmasters and local clubs in the area. Do you have any suggestions?
If you do, here some specific questions. (You can answer them here in a
new threat or off the NG at pcjr 101 at hotmail dot com (no spaces
w/proper characters).
* Would members of local Rotary clubs be interested in joining
Toastmasters clubs? What are some good ways to approach them?
* Would members of local Rotary clubs be interested in free seminars
about public speaking or leadership skills? What are some good ways to
tell them about them?
* How are guest speakers scheduled at meetings of Rotary clubs? What
topics do they want to hear about?
* Why do people join Rotary clubs? What is their biggest challenges (at
Rotary)?
Thanks in advance.
--
PC |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Comments on Washington Post article |
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"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:qc6Jg.495280$IK3.228519@pd7tw1no...
| Quote: |
However, there are some facts that are true.
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I couldn't resist this ...
<Puts on Grammarian's hat on head and puts tongue firmly in cheek.>
What other kinds of facts are there?
<Removes Grammarian's hat from head and tongue from cheek.>
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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