International Director/3rd VP Election Results

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Joy
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

"Rick" <rick.clements2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:fmYKg.3122$%k5.2631@trnddc08...

Quote:

betsy_in_va wrote:

So far, my observation is that the toastmasters method is to put people
in stressful situations until their dysfunctional behaviors run amok,
and then we are apparently supposed to magically realize a better way
to handle things. I don't see people improving, in fact I see everyone
getting worse and worse (and that includes myself). The people with
oversized egos get out of control, the game players start pulling crap,
the quitters say "to hell with this" and walk, etc.

While our District has had some notable exceptions, most of the time we
have had good District officers. If you aren't seeing good District
Officers, there are several things that can contribute to it.

One problem is common with all organizations & companies. That's the
Peter Principle. People get promoted until they can't do the job any
more. If I do a good job as club President and show up to District
meetings, I will be encouraged to serve as Area Governor. I may have done
a good job as President because I could rely on relationships that I
developed over years. As Area Governor, those relationships are gone so I
fail. (That's an example of one failure mode. There are many other
reasons.)

The top District officers are elected. If you have someone with a lot of
name recognition, they can be elected even if they didn't do a good job in
their previous position.

How do we measure success? We measure it with the Distinguished
club|Area|Division|District Plan. For example, as Area Governor, if you
serve in a strong Area, you will be Distinguished even if you do nothing.
Looking at the distinguished status for the Areas in our District, I see
they are scored on:
* On time renewals in October
* On time renewals in April
* Number off CC
* Number of AC
* Number of distinguished clubs
* Club visits in Nov. (you don't have to visit all)
* Club visits in May (you don't have to visit all)
* Number of members in each club
The idea is that the Area Governor should be helping their clubs, but the
clubs are experienced, the AG can get enough points to be Distinguished
and not do anything.

We have a good Area Governor this year, but if we didn't, we have two
clubs with PID's as members. We have a club with a member who won the
District's Toastmaster of the Year award twice. Another club has the LGET
as a member. The other club has two club coaches assigned to it, but the
strong clubs will carry the Area past the minimums. If an AG didn't do a
good job, he would still stand a good chance of winning an election based
on being Distinguished. If that person, is known (but not well enough to
know the kind of job he did) in the other Areas, that person stands a good
chance of being elected Division Governor.

--
Rick Clements, ATM-G, CL
Daylighters VP-Ed
District 7 Webmaster
Rick.Clements2@verizon.net
http://www.geocities.com/Rick_Clements/

There is another factor, too. The Governor jobs involve a lot of work if
they are to be done properly, and they can be very time consuming. I'm sure
every District has dozens of members who would be excellent in the
positions, but who refuse to take the jobs because of the time commitment
involved. That means that we are left with people who are willing to take
on the job, whether or not they are competent. Even when there is a
competition for the high District offices, all of the choices are those who
are willing to take on the job. Often, they are far from the most capable.

Joy

John Fleming, DTM
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:07:53 GMT, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, "Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:

Quote:

$There is another factor, too. The Governor jobs involve a lot of work if
$they are to be done properly, and they can be very time consuming. I'm sure
$every District has dozens of members who would be excellent in the
$positions, but who refuse to take the jobs because of the time commitment
$involved. That means that we are left with people who are willing to take
$on the job, whether or not they are competent. Even when there is a
$competition for the high District offices, all of the choices are those who
$are willing to take on the job. Often, they are far from the most capable.

You're absolutely right. That's one of the reasons I am now less active
as a Toastmaster--time commitment.

Because of the time requirement, I have no interest in jobs above the
club. And if I am attending some other Toastmasters event in a week,
meetings for one or both of my clubs go by the wayside.

For example, over the next month, I am involved in a Speechcraft
program, which takes out one Saturday and four Mondays. During this
time, I am attending *one* club meeting.

Doing it this way also allows me to devote more time and energy to other
non-Toastmasters projects.
--

John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada

Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President

A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.

- Gordon L. Glegg

Larry in Honolulu
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

In article <44F9D4FD.2010902@infi.net>, Regina Litman <rslitman@infi.net> wrote:

Quote:

One thing that still mystifies me is why the Regional Directors (the
name I keep using by mistake to refer to International Directors, which
is the name, in singuar form, that I keep using by mistake to refer to
the International President) are elected by the whole world and not just
by the people in that particular region. I had hoped to glean some of
this by finally attending a Toastmasters International Convention, but
if anything, I'm even more convinced that this is a function that should
be brought to the Regional level, to be voted upon at the Regional
Conference in June.

Here are reasons I favor doing this, at least for the International
Directors that represent actual regions:

1. To not have the people attending the International Convention
bombarded with so many candidates at one time, with just a short time to
get to know them.

2. To have issues important to a particular Region become a campaign
issue that will attract Regional voters who are interested in this
particular item, instead of having them voted upon largely by people who
may not know so much about Regional issues.

3. To allow people who can't travel the distance to the International
Convention most years to have a better chance to actually vote.

4. To give one more incentive for attending the Regional Conferences.
(Yes, I know that the elections may be another incentive for attending
the International Convention, but there are going to be more people,
incentive or not, who just can't come to International for various
reasons, especially price, that there are ones who just can't come to
Regional.)

5. Here's one that may actually be a reason some people may continue to
OPPOSE giving the elections to the regions - To make the directors
realize even more that they serve the region (whether this is their
purpose or not - perhaps the whole idea is to keep them from having
regional concerns while serving).

For the Directors representing the part of the world not put into
Regions, there would have to be another way to elect them. Perhaps this
could be done at the International Convention, BUT ONLY ALLOWING PEOPLE
FROM THESE DISTRICTS TO VOTE IN THIS ELECTION.

If anyone has any historical information as to why things are done this
way, please post it here. Thanks.

rich.hopkins@gmail.com wrote:
I know in the case of Region I, we had two candidates running at the
Region Conference. If both candidates had received a certain percentage
of votes, both would have been campaigning at the conference. However
the winner at the Region conference won by a large enough margin that
only she was eligible for consideration at the big conference.

I suspect the reason we hold votes for ID's and VP's even unopposed is
similar to why we vote members into the club - just in case we ever
need to vote them OUT.

PC - in terms of what they get out of it: The same thing volunteers in
any other organization get out of it, from scouts to church to rotary
ad nauseum - satisfaction of a job well done, experience for the
future, publicity/notoriety, and a credit on their resume.

Rich Hopkins - ATM-G
www.richhopkins.net

Good points, Rich. People keep talking about candidates running "unopposed" at
the Int'l conference. While that's technically correct, it is rare for a
candidate to be unopposed at their Regional, but the rules state -

"If any candidate at the regional conference business meeting, at which there
is a quorum, receives at least 75% or more of the votes cast on the first
ballot, that candidate shall be the only nominee."

In many regions that's exactly what happens, so the single candidate goes to
the convention "unopposed". (Technically the other candidate may go and run
from the floor, but they rarely ever win doing so.) The real result is that in
many of the contests the ID is actually elected by their Region, even though
they still have to run and be voted for by the body as a whole, since that's
who they represent.

Larry Lands DTM PDG
webmaster www.district49.org

Rod Taylor
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

"Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote in message
news:ZXZKg.20797$kO3.7414@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...

Quote:

There is another factor, too. The Governor jobs involve a lot of work
if
they are to be done properly, and they can be very time consuming.
I'm sure
every District has dozens of members who would be excellent in the
positions, but who refuse to take the jobs because of the time
commitment
involved. That means that we are left with people who are willing to
take
on the job, whether or not they are competent. Even when there is a
competition for the high District offices, all of the choices are
those who
are willing to take on the job. Often, they are far from the most
capable.

What you say is true, Joy, but we must remember that we are a learning
organisation and, even if a job has not been done well, it's what the
member has learnt at the end of it that's most important. Each officer
position is not just a job to be done, but also a learning opportunity.

It would be great to have plenty of competent volunteers with the time
available to do the job well, or who can learn the necessary skills and
then carry what they've learnt forward to a second term of office or
beyond. This would obviously lead to far greater efficiency.

Although less effective, I believe that the way we do things is the best
reasonable mix. We provide training and support, we encourage learning,
and we control both risk and return by limiting the term of office. The
organisation is big enough and strong enough to survive the effects of a
few non-ferforming offoicers.

There's little that can be done with those that aren't willing to take
office because of the time (and cost) involved

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Rod Taylor
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

"Larry in Honolulu" <noway@none.com> wrote in message
news:USaLg.9561$Cs3.8609@tornado.socal.rr.com...

Quote:

While that's technically correct, it is rare for a
candidate to be unopposed at their Regional, but the rules state -

"If any candidate at the regional conference business meeting, at
which there
is a quorum, receives at least 75% or more of the votes cast on the
first
ballot, that candidate shall be the only nominee."

Just for interest, Larry, is that the actual wording of the rule? I'm
surprised by the tautology.

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

Larry said ...

Quote:

In many regions that's exactly what happens, so the single candidate goes
to
the convention "unopposed". (Technically the other candidate may go and
run
from the floor, but they rarely ever win doing so.) The real result is
that in
many of the contests the ID is actually elected by their Region, even
though
they still have to run and be voted for by the body as a whole, since
that's
who they represent.

Actually, during the 4 or 5 years that I paid attention to such things, it
happened many times that the "vast majority" candidate lost at Int'l to the
"barely made 25%" candidate ... or to the <25% candidate who ran from the
floor. I wish I could remember names, but they are all gone from my memory
banks. I remember that one of them was from Region 8.

Within the Region, the PIDs and PIPs and other "know it all" TM's have far
too much influence on the 7 or 8 or 9 DG's who carry 90% or more of the club
votes ... and those who are so inclined can (and often do) create the voting
result that they want. It is harder for them to do that at the Int'l level,
and their efforts in that regard, at Int'l, are more focused on the 3rd VP
race.

One quick story ... the year I was 2nd year ID in Region I, there was an
enthusiastic race for the ID nomination(s) going on, and at one point a very
new TM came up to me and asked "are you in charge here?". I told her that as
the 2nd year ID, I was the Conference Chairperson, and she told me that she
had just come out of the ladies' washroom, where two "people with blue
badges" had a poor little British woman literally cornered, and were telling
her that she MUST vote for a certain ID candidate's nomination, and that
they demanded to see her ballots before she turned them in for counting.
This brand new TM said to me ... "If that's the way you people treat each
other, I will never serve in any office outside my club." I can hear her
voice to this day ... because, unfortunately, all too often that is exactly
how people are treated.

Susan.

Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate (of the program in the Clubs)
Langley BC Canada

Regina Litman
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

Larry in Honolulu wrote:

Quote:

Thanks for this reminder. I had known a few years ago that a candidate
receiving a certain percentage of the vote was the only one to advance
from a Regional Conference, but I had forgotten this. Had I known, I
would not have been surprised at the number of apparently uncontested
races at the International Convention.

I did hear a story a couple of years ago that once upon a time, someone
who didn't get nominated by a Region did get nominated from the floor at
the International Convention and succeeded in winning the election.
Don't hold me to it, but I think it was a person from the Region that
contains Louisiana.

--
Please note my correct email address:

rslitman [at-sign] infionline [dot] net

Eric Matto
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

Quote:

Some comments on the first International Election I was able to observe
firsthand:

1. I've been aware that in all the past years in which I was paying
attention, as was the case this year, Region VII had two candidates.
Therefore, I assumed that every year, every region has two candidates.
This was hardly the case, as five regional candidates were unopposed.

They usually start the year with multiple candidates. If there is more than

one candidate from a district, then the district chooses who goes forward at
their fall conference. The vote which is taken at the regional conference
cuts this down to the top two, or one if that person gets more than 75% of
the votes.

Quote:

2. There were three candidates for the director representing districts not
assigned to a region.

These districts don't have a regional conference to cut down the number of
candidates (see above).

Quote:

3. Gary Schmidt and George Yen ran quite visible campaigns, with
supporters wearing shirts and carrying various trinkets throughout the
events leading up to and during the Friday morning Annual Meeting.
Margaret Wan and Suezy Proctor also had a lot of visible supporters
despite running unopposed. In fact, all of my conference handouts are now
stored in a Margaret Wan souvenier plastic bag. Perhaps they had opponents
who dropped out or were concerned that there would be a nomination from
the floor.

This is up to each individual candidate, based on their budget and what they
want to do.

Quote:

4. None of the races were very close. I don't have the figures close at
hand, but I recall that Dietmar Wagenknecht in particular far outdistanced
his opponent.

Good for him. Dietmar was one of my Division Governors when I was District
30 Governor in Chicago.

Quote:

5. I really blew it by not going to the candidate sessions on Thursday
night. As the person responsible for my club's two votes, I should not
have relied on the booklet with the candidate information, a reception
after the opening session on Wednesday night, and the two-minute speeches
on Friday morning.

This is when the candidates answer questions and you get to see them under

some pressure.

Quote:

6. The Annual Meeting on Friday morning was the only event during the
whole Conference that ran past its scheduled time and impacted the
starting times of the following events (two concurrent luncheons, neither
of which I signed up to attend). Since some District and Regional
Conferences I've attended have had some serious time management problems,
this adherence to schedule (aided by a lot of slack time built in) was one
of several positive impressions I took away from the International
Convention.

Unlike District and Regional conferences which are run by volunteers, the

International is run by TI staff who have years of experience doing this.

--
Eric Matto, DTM, PDG
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Treasurer, Voice of Experience Advanced TM Club #583400-60
Member, Mississauga Valley Club #8277-60
Member, Creekside TD Club #864603-60

Eric Matto
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

Quote:

Maybe the candidates have started to make private agreements that only
one will run each year. Since there's an election every year, I'd think
some people would rather wait their turn. That way you don't have to
spend as much on the election and it doesn't turn nasty. I can't
imagine spending that sort of money and then losing, so I know the only
way I'd ever run would be if it was a sure thing.

A typical region has 8 Districts. Thus every year there are 8 outgoing

District Governors who are now eligible to run for ID from that region. Only
1 can win. Anybody waiting for the following year has 7 new people to worry
about (they can't have two IDs from the same District with overlapping
terms). Not every PDG wants to run for ID, but the field gets quite full
some times.

--
Eric Matto, DTM, PDG
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Treasurer, Voice of Experience Advanced TM Club #583400-60
Member, Mississauga Valley Club #8277-60
Member, Creekside TD Club #864603-60

Rod Taylor
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:oXnLg.509187$iF6.189136@pd7tw2no...

Quote:

Larry said ...

In many regions that's exactly what happens, so the single candidate
goes
to
the convention "unopposed". (Technically the other candidate may go
and
run
from the floor, but they rarely ever win doing so.) The real result
is
that in
many of the contests the ID is actually elected by their Region,
even
though
they still have to run and be voted for by the body as a whole,
since
that's
who they represent.

Actually, during the 4 or 5 years that I paid attention to such
things, it
happened many times that the "vast majority" candidate lost at Int'l
to the
"barely made 25%" candidate ... or to the <25% candidate who ran from
the
floor. I wish I could remember names, but they are all gone from my
memory
banks. I remember that one of them was from Region 8.

Within the Region, the PIDs and PIPs and other "know it all" TM's have
far
too much influence on the 7 or 8 or 9 DG's who carry 90% or more of
the club
votes ... and those who are so inclined can (and often do) create the
voting
result that they want. It is harder for them to do that at the Int'l
level,
and their efforts in that regard, at Int'l, are more focused on the
3rd VP
race.

One quick story ... the year I was 2nd year ID in Region I, there was
an
enthusiastic race for the ID nomination(s) going on, and at one point
a very
new TM came up to me and asked "are you in charge here?". I told her
that as
the 2nd year ID, I was the Conference Chairperson, and she told me
that she
had just come out of the ladies' washroom, where two "people with blue
badges" had a poor little British woman literally cornered, and were
telling
her that she MUST vote for a certain ID candidate's nomination, and
that
they demanded to see her ballots before she turned them in for
counting.
This brand new TM said to me ... "If that's the way you people treat
each
other, I will never serve in any office outside my club." I can hear
her
voice to this day ... because, unfortunately, all too often that is
exactly
how people are treated.

It's sad, but true, that people use their influence in this way, but
it's so in the world at large, not just in Toastmasters.

Just for interest, Susan, if a Club gives the DG a mandated proxy, is
there any way that that Club can verify that their vote was cast as
mandated, or even cast at all?

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Rod Taylor
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:oXnLg.509187$iF6.189136@pd7tw2no...

Quote:

Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate (of the program in the Clubs)
Langley BC Canada

That sig. is just about an icebreaker Smile

)

Like you, I'm passionate about Toastmasters and the way it works for
people at Club level. I've also become rather cynical about the reality
of its workings at higher levels.

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Mark Perew
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

Susan Niven CSP DTM PID <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote:

Quote:

By the way ... both of the preceding 2 paragraphs could be re-written with
respect to Division Governors within Districts. They, too, are elected by
the entire District Council for the same reason ... they are part of the
District Leadership Team, not leaders of autonomous teams within their
Division. And also, similarly, they are assigned to support the Area
Governors who are geographically closest to their own home base.

Sort of ...

I had a President's Distinguished Division based on the results of the clubs
and areas in the division to which I was elected governor. I had no input
into what my fellow Division Governors were doing in the other divisions.

I suspect that the reasons district officer positions are elected in this
fashion is more a matter of practicality. It's hard enough to get a quorum
at a District Council meeting. I can't imagine that it would be routinely
possible to get a quorom at a divisional meeting.

Likewise for the international offices.

Aren't Regional Conferences a fairly new (in TI terms) innovation?

--
Mark Perew <perew@squeep.com>
To the world you may be just one person,
but to one person you may be the world. (Source Unknown)

Larry in Honolulu
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

In article <ofWdnUyO-bqh12DZnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@is.co.za>, "Rod Taylor" <seemysignature@nospam.ever> wrote:

Quote:

"Larry in Honolulu" <noway@none.com> wrote in message
news:USaLg.9561$Cs3.8609@tornado.socal.rr.com...
While that's technically correct, it is rare for a
candidate to be unopposed at their Regional, but the rules state -

"If any candidate at the regional conference business meeting, at
which there
is a quorum, receives at least 75% or more of the votes cast on the
first
ballot, that candidate shall be the only nominee."

Just for interest, Larry, is that the actual wording of the rule? I'm
surprised by the tautology.

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Rod,

Yes that's the actual wording, although there's lots more covering the
situations where there are 3 or more candidates. If no one gets a majority,
they winnow out the one with the least votes and do it again until someone
gets a majority. They then decide if that majority is 75% and send forward
either 1 or 2. You don't actually have to get any votes to later run from the
floor. :-)

Larry Lands DTM PDG

Rod Taylor
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

"Larry in Honolulu" <noway@none.com> wrote in message
news:hdwLg.315$xg7.85@tornado.socal.rr.com...

Quote:

In article <ofWdnUyO-bqh12DZnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@is.co.za>, "Rod Taylor"
seemysignature@nospam.ever> wrote:
"Larry in Honolulu" <noway@none.com> wrote in message
news:USaLg.9561$Cs3.8609@tornado.socal.rr.com...
While that's technically correct, it is rare for a
candidate to be unopposed at their Regional, but the rules state -

"If any candidate at the regional conference business meeting, at
which there
is a quorum, receives at least 75% or more of the votes cast on the
first
ballot, that candidate shall be the only nominee."

Just for interest, Larry, is that the actual wording of the rule?
I'm
surprised by the tautology.

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Rod,

Yes that's the actual wording, although there's lots more covering the
situations where there are 3 or more candidates. If no one gets a
majority,
they winnow out the one with the least votes and do it again until
someone
gets a majority. They then decide if that majority is 75% and send
forward
either 1 or 2. You don't actually have to get any votes to later run
from the
floor. :-)

Thanks, Larry. It was the "at least 75% or more" that caught my eye.
Are there no grammarians on the WHQ staff? Smile

))

Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results

Rod asks ...

Quote:

Just for interest, Susan, if a Club gives the DG a mandated proxy, is
there any way that that Club can verify that their vote was cast as
mandated, or even cast at all?

Hmmm .... I am not aware of any way that this could be verified. There is no
"process" in place that would facilitate this ... at least, none of which I
am aware.

I have, however, heard more than one DG talk about how s/he was going to
cast ALL of the District's votes, irrespective of any directions from Clubs
.... and have experienced various retorts and eye-rolls from some of them
when I suggested that they were obligated to cast directed votes as
directed.

Sad, isn't it?

Susan.

Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate (of the program at Club level)
Langley BC Canada

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