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Rod Taylor
Guest
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 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Giving feedback to Former Leaders |
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<rich.hopkins@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157862366.456166.15120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Every contest I've ever taken less than first in I've had people run
to
me to say they placed me first - from club level to the World
Championship last month.
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A common scenario, Rich. The same thing probably happens to most
speakers.
Isn't it strange that, when you win, no one runs up to tell you they
didn't place you first? Reassurance and support is normal.
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Giving feedback to Former Leaders |
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<griffas98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1157846504.230417.295420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | There has been a great deal of discussion of politics and experts.
I believe that the reason that there are so many experts with their
own
version of what is correct in Toastmasters because the fundamental
requirements are so badly set out.
Let me propose a scenario. It may appear unrealistic unrealistic, but
I
would appreciate anyone finding a clause of the written requirements
for membership or the speech contest that make it unreal.
A person pays membership to join a club. The person does not attend
any
meeting, but is accepted as a member at a meeting. - Let's say so that
they get their DCP points - why is not important. What is important is
:
1. He was sponsored by an active member
2. Was invited to join the club
3. Made application on the right form, and completed it fully
4. Paid the required amounts
5. Returned the form to the club secretary
6. The Secretary read the application to the club
7. A majority (in fact all, but the requirement is only a majority) of
the members present accepted the nomination.
8. The form was sent to World Headquarters.
Naturally he receives new member materials and quickly gets to work on
completing six assignments in the manual.
To complete them, he read the assignments, wrote a speech that met the
guidelines, recorded it, published it on his web site and did as many
other things that completing the assignment could possibly entail, as
long as it didn't involve attending a meeting of his own or any other
club.
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The CC manual makes it clear clear that completion of the projects
involves delivery of the speech to the club and the subsequent
evaluation of the speech in front of the club. Speeches written,
recorded, and published on a website or anywhere else would not meet
these requirements. Learning takes place in the club environment. TMI
has not yet accepted 'virtual' Clubs.
Having said that, the 'completion of six projects' required by the rule
does not require any standard or achievement of objectives. Six awful,
mumbled 'speeches' presented to the club and evaluated would satisfy the
requirement although how such a speaker might then be victorious at
Area, and triumphant at Division might be a moot point  ))
| Quote: | The club chose him as its contestant "by whatever means the Club
desires" which did not involve this member attending a meeting.
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This is the club's right.
| Quote: | He was victorious at Area, triumphed at Division but at District was a
little concerned that there may have been a speaker who was at his
level. He quickly appealed that all of the other contestants had
breached both the eligibility and originality guidelines.
Eligibility, because he understood it was uncommon in this district
for
people to be "voted in" to membership.
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If you wish to be pedantic about the 'voting in' process, I think you'll
find that Robert's rules would consider 'accepted' (point 7 in your
list), as being a vote 'nem con' and therefore valid in terms of
election of an individual to membership.
| Quote: | Originality because he believed that each of the contestants had
accepted advice from other people and adjusted their speeches
accordingly. This contravened their declaration:
"In compliance with current speech Contest rules, I certify that I
alone prepared my speech and that it is substantially original."
He contended that the preparation had done by the contestant
"alone".
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This is an old chestnut. There is no need for a definition of
'substantially original'. The only way a contestant can be disqualified
on the basis of originality is under the Protest and Disqualification
procedure. This requires all the judges to discuss the protest. The
contestant must then be given the right of reply. A majority of the
judges must vote for disqualification. Highly unlikely on such a
trivial issue.
| Quote: | If you were the chief judge, how would you respond?
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With much mirth.
Incidentally, disqualification on the basis of eligibility may be done
by the Contest Chair.
Overall, neither protest would hold water and the individual concerned
might even be disqualified under the eligibility rule for not having met
the requirement of having completed six projects in the CC (C&L) manual.
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Giving feedback to Former Leaders |
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Interesting scenario. Joy pointed out that the rules for a CTM
specifically state that only 2 speeches may be given outside of a club
meeting. I don't know if the same is true in the contest rules, but if
any rule changing was required that would take care of it.
This reminds me of those cautions you sometimes find on consumer goods
(warning: consumers are warned that paper towels are for drying hands
and should not be eaten or worn as garments...) In other words, I don't
think we need to go changing the rules. After all, interpretation of
the rules is up to the chief judge, and the ruling of the chief judge
is final. The chief judge does not have to justify his response, giving
him the freedom to choose between laughing out loud, or asking the guy
to jump in a lake...
As for this statement:
| Quote: |
This is all against a setting where a lively, creative, enthusiastic
Toastmaster is fearful in another thread that her contribution is not
valuable, because she is challenging the accepted norm.
Not sure if you're referring to me here, but on the off chance that you |
are, I'd like to set the record straight. I never said (or meant to
infer) that I fear that my contributions are not valuable. If that was
the case I wouldn't bother running them by you guys in the first place.
What I DO think is that I don't know it all, especially because I'm
relatively new. That's why I ask lots of questions. Then, when I feel I
understand the situations completely, I can make really good
suggestions that have been well thought out. |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Giving feedback to Former Leaders |
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| Quote: | Every contest I've ever taken less than first in I've had people run to
me to say they placed me first - from club level to the World
Championship last month.
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I can vouch for that--the WCPS volunteers sat in the back and had a
grand time using the judging forms. I saw quite a few of them, and Rich
scored very high, indeed. Many if not most of the people sitting near
me had him as the 1st or 2nd choice. |
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PlatformPrep
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Giving feedback to Former Leaders |
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Of course tha tis the case...but that simply proves the really
qualified folks are never judges. ;-)
It is like Jock Elliott once said, "I believe there are two types of
judges...those who vote me first, and those who are drunk"!
skc
rich.hopkins@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Every contest I've ever taken less than first in I've had people run to
me to say they placed me first - from club level to the World
Championship last month.
Rich Hopkins
www.richhopkins.net
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Giving feedback to Former Leaders |
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LOL! This belongs in a book of "Great Quotes From Toastmasters About
Toastmasters." |
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