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Message |
Jean
Guest
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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Hi Joy
What a sad commentary. I don't know about other Districts but I would
very much like to see our District put together regional 'rescue teams'
and 'new club start-up' teams of committed, experienced members who
want to do other things than be officers or go through the same
material time-after-time.
Starting a new club, I certainly could use one of those teams to give
me a hand and there are a couple of clubs in my area that could use the
input from a 'rescue team.'
This should be something individual areas, regions and districts on
some level should be able to support... of course, I'm speaking from
being in the UK. But I am an American and, vast though America is,
there should be some creative solution other than 'then let it die...'
What do you think?
Warmest regards
Jean
Joy wrote:
| Quote: | "John Sleigh" <john_sleigh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1JeDg.10801$rP1.6213@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Some interesting comments in this thread and the related one on TLI.
One question I have never heard asked (and never considered until this
discussion is should all executive opsitions be required to attend
training, and should they all qualify for DCP and leadership track credit.
I support the tone of Susan's post that that if you are going to do the
job you need to be qualified. A visitor to any of the 10,000 clubs walks
away with a lasting impression of Toastmasters - positive or negative.
They call up that impression when they see Toastmasters on a resume in a
subway ad, or a newspaper publicity piece.
TI (and that includes all of us, too) has a vested ineterest in protecting
the brand.
I suspect that Rich wants to be recognized as the best speaker in the
world this year by a credible organization.
I don't highlight my Toastmasters membership as much as I used to in my
profesional publicity materials simply because of two very negative
reactions from potential clients when I did. I don't deny it either and it
does get a mention a few times on my web site, but it doesn't get as much
attention as I would like to give it, and in my case it deserves.
Toastamsters was a great influence and help in my career as a manager and
more recently as a trainer and pro speaker. Yet there are people out there
with a very bitter taste in their mouth because of their Toastmasters
experience. And the time for me to change their attitude is not when I am
trying to sell my services to them. The time is when I am conducting my
training or being introduced as a speaker. I promote it then, under the
guise of a garage where you can practice - a story I have told several
times on this NG.
How to protect the brand?
At least one person in any club offering its services as a member of the
world wide Toastmasters organiazation must have attended and participated
in the most recent version of club officer training and only that person
can induct a new member. They sign the member application form, which
includes the name of the assigned mentor and perhaps some other quality
control measures.
From the volume of discussion on this NG it is clear that there are
quality problems, and this would be my solution.
It strikes me as odd that Toastmasters can claim in its mission statement
to be
"the leading movement devoted to making effective oral communication a
worldwide reality"
when it cannot inspire the front line officers to buy in to training in
the content of the program.
John Sleigh DTM
Sydney, Australia
It is true that a person should be qualified for a position. However,
training doesn't always equal qualification, and some people have experience
in the outside world and are capable of learning from the manual, so they
can do a good job without attending training.
I have known more than one District Governor who attended ever training for
years, but who is definitely not qualified for the position. I spoke with
one DG about one of my clubs that was struggling to stay in existence.
There were only a few experienced Toastmasters in the club, one of whom was
me. Two were a couple in their 80's, and one was a woman who was obviously
burned out on Toastmasters. She was my VP Ed (I was President at the
time), and she wasn't doing anything about scheduling participants for
future meetings. Somehow, we always managed to pull a good meeting together
at the last minute, but I felt I was dragging the club along single-handed.
I asked the DG if there were some way Toastmasters could help to get people
interested again. He said, "You should make them do such and such." I
said, "These are adults. I can't make them do anything." His response?
"Then let the club die." It did.
--
Joy Gaylord, ATM-S, CL
Simi Valley Toastmasters (Dist. 33)
Storytelling & Performing Arts Toastmasters (Dist. 52)
Southern California |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:42 am Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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"Mark Perew" <perew@bokbok.squeep.com> wrote in message
news:ebkvf8$1rp@dispatch.concentric.net...
| Quote: | Jean <jean_hf@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
But I am an American and, vast though America is,
there should be some creative solution other than 'then let it die...'
There are, however, times when clubs should be allowed (nay, even
encouraged) to die. When I was AG, I spent the majority of my time on a
couple of struggling clubs. I struggled to keep them afloat, brought in
new
ideas, reinforced the essentials, helped with recruitment, etc. My
successor did likewise. The following year both clubs finally folded.
--
Mark Perew <perew@squeep.com
To the world you may be just one person,
but to one person you may be the world. (Source Unknown)
|
That's true, and it was probably time for this club to die. However, I
didn't think the DG's comment reflected the Toastmasters spirit. Besides,
this was my original Toastmasters club, and it happened on my watch. :-(
Joy |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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The emphasis seems to be more on starting new clubs than in helping existing
clubs to survive and revive. One of my other clubs was down to four active
members at one point, but they fought on and we now have 35 members, about
half of which are active.
Joy
"Jean" <jean_hf@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1155396743.650019.178320@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hi Joy
What a sad commentary. I don't know about other Districts but I would
very much like to see our District put together regional 'rescue teams'
and 'new club start-up' teams of committed, experienced members who
want to do other things than be officers or go through the same
material time-after-time.
Starting a new club, I certainly could use one of those teams to give
me a hand and there are a couple of clubs in my area that could use the
input from a 'rescue team.'
This should be something individual areas, regions and districts on
some level should be able to support... of course, I'm speaking from
being in the UK. But I am an American and, vast though America is,
there should be some creative solution other than 'then let it die...'
What do you think?
Warmest regards
Jean
Joy wrote:
"John Sleigh" <john_sleigh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1JeDg.10801$rP1.6213@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Some interesting comments in this thread and the related one on TLI.
One question I have never heard asked (and never considered until this
discussion is should all executive opsitions be required to attend
training, and should they all qualify for DCP and leadership track
credit.
I support the tone of Susan's post that that if you are going to do the
job you need to be qualified. A visitor to any of the 10,000 clubs
walks
away with a lasting impression of Toastmasters - positive or negative.
They call up that impression when they see Toastmasters on a resume in
a
subway ad, or a newspaper publicity piece.
TI (and that includes all of us, too) has a vested ineterest in
protecting
the brand.
I suspect that Rich wants to be recognized as the best speaker in the
world this year by a credible organization.
I don't highlight my Toastmasters membership as much as I used to in my
profesional publicity materials simply because of two very negative
reactions from potential clients when I did. I don't deny it either and
it
does get a mention a few times on my web site, but it doesn't get as
much
attention as I would like to give it, and in my case it deserves.
Toastamsters was a great influence and help in my career as a manager
and
more recently as a trainer and pro speaker. Yet there are people out
there
with a very bitter taste in their mouth because of their Toastmasters
experience. And the time for me to change their attitude is not when I
am
trying to sell my services to them. The time is when I am conducting my
training or being introduced as a speaker. I promote it then, under the
guise of a garage where you can practice - a story I have told several
times on this NG.
How to protect the brand?
At least one person in any club offering its services as a member of
the
world wide Toastmasters organiazation must have attended and
participated
in the most recent version of club officer training and only that
person
can induct a new member. They sign the member application form, which
includes the name of the assigned mentor and perhaps some other quality
control measures.
From the volume of discussion on this NG it is clear that there are
quality problems, and this would be my solution.
It strikes me as odd that Toastmasters can claim in its mission
statement
to be
"the leading movement devoted to making effective oral communication a
worldwide reality"
when it cannot inspire the front line officers to buy in to training in
the content of the program.
John Sleigh DTM
Sydney, Australia
It is true that a person should be qualified for a position. However,
training doesn't always equal qualification, and some people have
experience
in the outside world and are capable of learning from the manual, so they
can do a good job without attending training.
I have known more than one District Governor who attended ever training
for
years, but who is definitely not qualified for the position. I spoke
with
one DG about one of my clubs that was struggling to stay in existence.
There were only a few experienced Toastmasters in the club, one of whom
was
me. Two were a couple in their 80's, and one was a woman who was
obviously
burned out on Toastmasters. She was my VP Ed (I was President at the
time), and she wasn't doing anything about scheduling participants for
future meetings. Somehow, we always managed to pull a good meeting
together
at the last minute, but I felt I was dragging the club along
single-handed.
I asked the DG if there were some way Toastmasters could help to get
people
interested again. He said, "You should make them do such and such." I
said, "These are adults. I can't make them do anything." His response?
"Then let the club die." It did.
--
Joy Gaylord, ATM-S, CL
Simi Valley Toastmasters (Dist. 33)
Storytelling & Performing Arts Toastmasters (Dist. 52)
Southern California
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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Joy wrote:
| Quote: | The emphasis seems to be more on starting new clubs than in helping existing
clubs to survive and revive. One of my other clubs was down to four active
members at one point, but they fought on and we now have 35 members, about
half of which are active.
It's nice to hear about clubs like this. What do you attribute this |
turn around to? Or, what marked the turning point? Was there a
specific event or member that changed everything? Did new people join
in a large clump, or was it piecemeal? |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:50 am Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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|
"betsy_in_va" <b7760@keogan.com> wrote in message
news:1155407449.031963.10440@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Joy wrote:
The emphasis seems to be more on starting new clubs than in helping
existing
clubs to survive and revive. One of my other clubs was down to four
active
members at one point, but they fought on and we now have 35 members,
about
half of which are active.
It's nice to hear about clubs like this. What do you attribute this
turn around to? Or, what marked the turning point? Was there a
specific event or member that changed everything? Did new people join
in a large clump, or was it piecemeal?
|
This actually happened several years before I joined the club. One of the
four is still in the club. The other three moved away but remained active
in Toastmasters, although on has since died.
As Tom (the remaining member) tells it, after three or four meetings with
just the four of them, they discussed the situation after one of those
meetings. They decided that if they didn't have any guests in the next
week, they would fold up their tent. The next week they had a guest, who
joined. After that, the guests and new members just kept coming in. I
don't know of anything special they did to attract guests. I think they
just invited people, and had good meetings to show them.
Since I joined the club, active membership has gotten low at times, and we
still have an occasional meeting with only a few people present. Several
years ago, I was Toastmaster at a meeting where most of the scheduled
participants didn't show up. I ended up being Toastmaster, Table Topics
Master and General Evaluator. One Thursday last year, I had a flat tire on
my way to one meeting. I called to let them know I was coming but would be
late. When I arrived, the meeting was in full swing, and the four members
present were in the middle of Table Topics. We did two rounds of Table
Topics, with the TT Master participating as well. Then each of us gave a
short, impromptu speech. It was a good meeting, even though there were five
of us.
I think the main difference between that club and the one that folded was
that everyone in the club that survived was enthusiastic about Toastmasters,
and was willing to work to keep the club going. Most of the members of the
other club were apathetic. They enjoyed the meetings, and would come as
long as someone else did the planning, but they didn't want to put out any
effort.
Joy |
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Mark Perew
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
| Quote: | That's true, and it was probably time for this club to die. However, I
didn't think the DG's comment reflected the Toastmasters spirit. Besides,
this was my original Toastmasters club, and it happened on my watch. 
|
That would be very hard to accept. I can understand your frustration.
--
Mark Perew <perew@squeep.com>
To the world you may be just one person,
but to one person you may be the world. (Source Unknown) |
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| Back to top |
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wordkyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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Another member of my club and I have discussed this topic several times
over the years. At one point we had the same problem, 2-5 attendees
each week, no guests, etc. We conducted a Speechcraft, recruited a few
members as a result, and recovered. For several years we conducted an
annual Speechcraft, which was our most effective membership-building
tool. However, some years the Speechcraft attracted very few
attendees. In other years we had lots of attendees, but they didn't
join. Nothing was substantially different in those years; the planets
just didn't line up right.
With membership there are sooooo many random factors. A company with a
lot of Toastmasters employees might close down, and the club loses half
its members. Another company's top person decrees that Toastmasters is
required, and the club doubles in size. A new member has a tremendous
"warm market" and recruits a dozen people to join; another person
joins, and immediately learns his work schedule changed and the meeting
time is no longer convenient.
During a membership crisis, it takes a huge amount of time and energy
to rescue the club. The quality of the meetings is important, and low
attendance works against you. Once the machinery cranks up and the
club's healthy again, having good club meetings ("putting out a good
product" or "taking care of the 'brand'") is critical if you're to keep
any of the guests as members.
Random, chaotic, blind luck is a huge factor in a club's success. All
we can do is try to do the right things along the way (e.g., run good
meetings, invite guests, conduct membership drives/contests), hoping
that one of them is effective.
Joy wrote:
| Quote: | "betsy_in_va" <b7760@keogan.com> wrote in message
news:1155407449.031963.10440@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Joy wrote:
The emphasis seems to be more on starting new clubs than in helping
existing
clubs to survive and revive. One of my other clubs was down to four
active
members at one point, but they fought on and we now have 35 members,
about
half of which are active.
It's nice to hear about clubs like this. What do you attribute this
turn around to? Or, what marked the turning point? Was there a
specific event or member that changed everything? Did new people join
in a large clump, or was it piecemeal?
This actually happened several years before I joined the club. One of the
four is still in the club. The other three moved away but remained active
in Toastmasters, although on has since died.
As Tom (the remaining member) tells it, after three or four meetings with
just the four of them, they discussed the situation after one of those
meetings. They decided that if they didn't have any guests in the next
week, they would fold up their tent. The next week they had a guest, who
joined. After that, the guests and new members just kept coming in. I
don't know of anything special they did to attract guests. I think they
just invited people, and had good meetings to show them.
Since I joined the club, active membership has gotten low at times, and we
still have an occasional meeting with only a few people present. Several
years ago, I was Toastmaster at a meeting where most of the scheduled
participants didn't show up. I ended up being Toastmaster, Table Topics
Master and General Evaluator. One Thursday last year, I had a flat tire on
my way to one meeting. I called to let them know I was coming but would be
late. When I arrived, the meeting was in full swing, and the four members
present were in the middle of Table Topics. We did two rounds of Table
Topics, with the TT Master participating as well. Then each of us gave a
short, impromptu speech. It was a good meeting, even though there were five
of us.
I think the main difference between that club and the one that folded was
that everyone in the club that survived was enthusiastic about Toastmasters,
and was willing to work to keep the club going. Most of the members of the
other club were apathetic. They enjoyed the meetings, and would come as
long as someone else did the planning, but they didn't want to put out any
effort.
Joy |
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Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: Re: If You Could Change The DCP Program, What Would You Chan |
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Joy said ...
| Quote: | The emphasis seems to be more on starting new clubs than in helping
existing clubs to survive and revive. One of my other clubs was down to
four active members at one point, but they fought on and we now have 35
members, about half of which are active.
|
In that paragraph, Joy has - in my opinion - provided great examples of two
TI truisms:
1 - Yes, the emphasis IS on building new Clubs rather than on helping
existing Clubs to rebuild;
Because ....
2 - Keeping a Club healthy, and reviving it when it is "sick" ... is up to
that Club's members. In the example Joy cited, the "4 active members"
clearly decided that their Club was important, and they got busy and rebuilt
it.
TI can (and does) provide excellent materials that Clubs can use in their
building and re-building efforts ... but a Club is a small or large group of
people ... and they are the only people on the planet who can make anything
happen in their Club. Good or bad.
Thanks, Joy!
Susan.
Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate
Langley, BC, Canada |
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