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Rod Taylor
Guest
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 Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1XLLg.514755$iF6.284817@pd7tw2no...
| Quote: | Rod asks ...
Just for interest, Susan, if a Club gives the DG a mandated proxy,
is
there any way that that Club can verify that their vote was cast as
mandated, or even cast at all?
Hmmm .... I am not aware of any way that this could be verified. There
is no
"process" in place that would facilitate this ... at least, none of
which I
am aware.
I have, however, heard more than one DG talk about how s/he was going
to
cast ALL of the District's votes, irrespective of any directions from
Clubs
... and have experienced various retorts and eye-rolls from some of
them
when I suggested that they were obligated to cast directed votes as
directed.
Sad, isn't it?
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Very sad, and worrying considering the great push for proxies every
year. If DGs can use Clubs' proxies irrespective of Clubs' wishes, then
clearly proxies = power. We've previously discussed the way power and
influence can ensure that conveniently compliant people who won't rock
the boat, get elected to high office. We really need people with fresh
insight who can act on the things that need changing and make things
happen, rather than merely rubber-stamp (or not) ideas that have come
from the very limited pool of WHQ staff.
No wonder I'm a cynic.
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 11:52:17 +0200, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, "Rod Taylor" <seemysignature@nospam.ever> wrote:
| Quote: | $"Larry in Honolulu" <noway@none.com> wrote in message
$news:hdwLg.315$xg7.85@tornado.socal.rr.com...
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[snip]
| Quote: | $Thanks, Larry. It was the "at least 75% or more" that caught my eye.
$Are there no grammarians on the WHQ staff?  ))
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What are the odds this was written by a committee? 
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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Rod said ...
| Quote: | No wonder I'm a cynic.
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Et tu, Brute?!!!!
Susan.
Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate - of the program at Club level
Langley BC Canada |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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Rick said:
| Quote: | If I do a good job as club President and show up to District
meetings, I will be encouraged to serve as Area Governor. I may have
done a good job as President because I could rely on relationships that
I developed over years. As Area Governor, those relationships are gone
so I fail. (That's an example of one failure mode. There are many
other reasons.)
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Joy said:
| Quote: | That means that we are left with people who are willing to take
on the job, whether or not they are competent. Even when there is a
competition for the high District offices, all of the choices are those who
are willing to take on the job. Often, they are far from the most capable.
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These are both excellent reasons why I wish we had leadership training
that addressed more than just a description of the job to be done. We
need to give our new leaders practical ideas on how to manage people,
deal with situations, etc.
For example, this summer I received at least 20 e-mails telling me THAT
I needed to get my clubs to send their officers to TLI training, but
very little practical advice about HOW to do this. If the subject was
brought up at a training sessons, the instructor (and I'd bet several
people in the audience) would have some helpful ideas for people like
me who are not natural born salesmen.
A training session could look at typical dysfunctional scenarios and
teach people a better way to handle situations. Or, they could address
a topic like "Things you can say that will persuade people to
participate in contests." It might also be a subtle way to show
newcomers how things work. For example: A session could discuss the
controversial newsletter topic that was on this board a few months ago.
In addition to discussing different ways to handle to situation, it's
an opportunity to explain that the DG is the publisher and is held
responsible for newsletter content.
It's just a thought--are there reasons why this WOULDN'T be a good
idea? Maybe after I've been around a few more years, I'll see see if we
can try it. (For now, I'm only just realizing that I have a lot yet to
learn before I make suggestions...) |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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| Quote: | Anybody waiting for the following year has 7 new people to worry
about (they can't have two IDs from the same District with overlapping
terms). Not every PDG wants to run for ID, but the field gets quite full
some times.
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Yes, I am quickly realizing that people who put in the effort to be DG
are probably into politics and are likely to want to advance to the
top. These aren't the sort of people who make agreements to wait their
turn... |
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Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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Betsy said ...
| Quote: | These are both excellent reasons why I wish we had leadership training
that addressed more than just a description of the job to be done. We
need to give our new leaders practical ideas on how to manage people,
deal with situations, etc.
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You are, IMRHO, absolutely right, Betsy.
TI has always been "good" at creating and pushing propaganda about WHAT
needs to be done ... but not so good at the WHY ... and virtually absent as
to the HOW.
| Quote: | It's just a thought--are there reasons why this WOULDN'T be a good
idea?
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Can't imagine what those could possibly be. Think about any workplace,
Betsy. How well would it function, and how would the organization's bottom
line fare, if everyone were simply trained on WHAT to do, with little or no
training on HOW to do it.
| Quote: | Maybe after I've been around a few more years, I'll see see if we
can try it. (For now, I'm only just realizing that I have a lot yet to
learn before I make suggestions...)
|
It bothers me that you say this again. (You have made similar comments over
the past few months.) What is it that you think you need to learn before
your suggestions are of value? I can't think of a single thing. You are
adult human being with work, career, volunteer and other experience. You
know a lot. You have done a lot. Maybe you don't know all the TI acronyms
yet, but so what ????? Your suggestions are valuable, and IMRHO they are
ESPECIALLY valuable because you may not yet be totally brainwashed about
"how things have to be" or "the way we've always done it". It bothers me to
realize that you most likely have this opinion because a long-time TM or two
has said or intimated this to you. They are the ones who have a lot to
learn, Betsy :)
Susan.
Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate (of the program at Club level)
Langley, BC, Canada |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:vWCMg.520393$Mn5.98630@pd7tw3no...
| Quote: | Betsy said ...
These are both excellent reasons why I wish we had leadership training
that addressed more than just a description of the job to be done. We
need to give our new leaders practical ideas on how to manage people,
deal with situations, etc.
You are, IMRHO, absolutely right, Betsy.
TI has always been "good" at creating and pushing propaganda about WHAT
needs to be done ... but not so good at the WHY ... and virtually absent
as to the HOW.
It's just a thought--are there reasons why this WOULDN'T be a good
idea?
Can't imagine what those could possibly be. Think about any workplace,
Betsy. How well would it function, and how would the organization's bottom
line fare, if everyone were simply trained on WHAT to do, with little or
no training on HOW to do it.
Maybe after I've been around a few more years, I'll see see if we
can try it. (For now, I'm only just realizing that I have a lot yet to
learn before I make suggestions...)
It bothers me that you say this again. (You have made similar comments
over the past few months.) What is it that you think you need to learn
before your suggestions are of value? I can't think of a single thing. You
are adult human being with work, career, volunteer and other experience.
You know a lot. You have done a lot. Maybe you don't know all the TI
acronyms yet, but so what ????? Your suggestions are valuable, and IMRHO
they are ESPECIALLY valuable because you may not yet be totally
brainwashed about "how things have to be" or "the way we've always done
it". It bothers me to realize that you most likely have this opinion
because a long-time TM or two has said or intimated this to you. They are
the ones who have a lot to learn, Betsy :)
Susan.
Susan Black (formerly Niven) DTM PID
Toastmasters International Director 1998-2000
Former Toastmaster & Lifelong Advocate (of the program at Club level)
Langley, BC, Canada
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Well said, Susan!
Betsy, You really need to stop putting yourself down. You are very
intelligent and have some really good ideas. This training idea of yours is
an excellent one. Go for it!
--
Joy Gaylord, ATM-S, CL
Simi Valley Toastmasters (Dist. 33)
Storytelling & Performing Arts Toastmasters (Dist. 52)
Southern California |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:z28Mg.515736$Mn5.173713@pd7tw3no...
| Quote: | Rod said ...
No wonder I'm a cynic.
Et tu, Brute?!!!!
|
Ja, Meisie, ek ook.
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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Thanks, both of you... I'm not putting myself (or anyone) down, but
yes, I do realize I have a lot to learn. My entire impression of
toastmasters is changing radically. I had no idea it would be so
political. That's why I ask my questions here (and to my mentor, having
finally gotten one). It is too easy for enthusiastic people who ask
questions to get into trouble. There's innocent trouble (if I make a
suggestion, I might be railroaded into taking on a difficult job).
Then, there's political trouble. I'm not really intimidated by the
politics, but it's an aspect of the program that turns me off and can
quickly eat up all your time, so I want to keep far away from politics.
I don't know who all the players are or how to play the games... and I
don't want to know.
Even though I don't want any part of it, I wish I could understand the
politics a little more because it seems to be the reason why many
baffling things are done in a certain way. For example, why is it so
incredibly important that all the clubs submit officer lists or that
all officers go to TLI? People seem to attach a life or death
importance to these things, so I can only guess that someone's
political career may hinge on how many officer lists get submitted.
The strangest part is that it's hard to tell how much is actual
politics and how much is rumor or people making a mountain out of a
molehill. I've heard some stories that seem hard to believe. I even
heard someone filed a false complaint against me, but I don't know if I
believe it--why would they do that? I'm a peon, and I don't have any
political aspirations, so complaints don't harm me. I hear people
actually file complaints with WHQ just to ruin the political careers of
other people. That seems extreme--this is just toastmasters, for pete's
sake, not the u.s. senate. But, I've heard this from a few dofferent
people so maybe it's true. I also heard that I can let go of any hope
to get to the WCPS unless I cater to a certain person, but I find that
hard to believe too. Could someone really fix the district contest? It
just doesn't seem likely. And if so, would I really want to win it
anyway? It's not like I have a future career as a public speaker so it
doesn't mean that much to me. Most importantly, these are all just
hearsay--so I disregard everything, but I also realize that keeping
quiet and keeping my eyes open is a good way to keep out of trouble.
Also, I've noticed that people who keep a low profile and don't get
overly enthusiastic manage to keep district stuff from becoming way too
important in life. To some people, toastmasters is their all consuming
life passion. To me, it is a pleasant hobby and that's the way I like
it. If I got caught up in politics it would be hard to remember that,
so I try to keep away from politics. |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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"betsy_in_va" <b7760@keogan.com> wrote in message
news:1157839384.556720.69620@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Thanks, both of you... I'm not putting myself (or anyone) down, but
yes, I do realize I have a lot to learn. My entire impression of
toastmasters is changing radically. I had no idea it would be so
political. That's why I ask my questions here (and to my mentor,
having
finally gotten one). It is too easy for enthusiastic people who ask
questions to get into trouble. There's innocent trouble (if I make a
suggestion, I might be railroaded into taking on a difficult job).
Then, there's political trouble. I'm not really intimidated by the
politics, but it's an aspect of the program that turns me off and can
quickly eat up all your time, so I want to keep far away from
politics.
I don't know who all the players are or how to play the games... and I
don't want to know.
Even though I don't want any part of it, I wish I could understand the
politics a little more because it seems to be the reason why many
baffling things are done in a certain way. For example, why is it so
incredibly important that all the clubs submit officer lists or that
all officers go to TLI? People seem to attach a life or death
importance to these things, so I can only guess that someone's
political career may hinge on how many officer lists get submitted.
The strangest part is that it's hard to tell how much is actual
politics and how much is rumor or people making a mountain out of a
molehill. I've heard some stories that seem hard to believe. I even
heard someone filed a false complaint against me, but I don't know if
I
believe it--why would they do that? I'm a peon, and I don't have any
political aspirations, so complaints don't harm me. I hear people
actually file complaints with WHQ just to ruin the political careers
of
other people. That seems extreme--this is just toastmasters, for
pete's
sake, not the u.s. senate. But, I've heard this from a few dofferent
people so maybe it's true. I also heard that I can let go of any hope
to get to the WCPS unless I cater to a certain person, but I find that
hard to believe too. Could someone really fix the district contest? It
just doesn't seem likely. And if so, would I really want to win it
anyway? It's not like I have a future career as a public speaker so it
doesn't mean that much to me. Most importantly, these are all just
hearsay--so I disregard everything, but I also realize that keeping
quiet and keeping my eyes open is a good way to keep out of trouble.
Also, I've noticed that people who keep a low profile and don't get
overly enthusiastic manage to keep district stuff from becoming way
too
important in life. To some people, toastmasters is their all
consuming
life passion. To me, it is a pleasant hobby and that's the way I like
it. If I got caught up in politics it would be hard to remember that,
so I try to keep away from politics.
|
I hate the politics and I won't play the game. Intimidatory tactics
aren't likely to work on me, because I don't care what they may say or
do, so I just speak my mind anyway. Yes, it often (very often?) makes
me unpopular, but that doesn't worry me either.
On the other side of the coin, I'm still around, which is more than can
be said of a large proportion of the game-players I've known down the
years.
As for a complaints list at WHQ, if such a document exists, it's
probably so long that nobody has the time to read it ))
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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| Quote: | As for a complaints list at WHQ, if such a document exists, it's
probably so long that nobody has the time to read it ))
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LOL! Plus, these are stories I heard from other volunteers at the
convention, it's hard to know how seriously to take them. Especially
the one about the contest--sour grapes, maybe? |
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Susan Niven CSP DTM PID
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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| Quote: | Rod said ...
No wonder I'm a cynic.
Et tu, Brute?!!!!
Ja, Meisie, ek ook.
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Huh ???!!!!
Afrikaans? (sorry if spelling is incorrect ...)
Dos cervezas, por favor :)
Susan. |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:44 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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"Susan Niven CSP DTM PID" <foronlineuse@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:eDWMg.540939$IK3.162877@pd7tw1no...
| Quote: | Rod said ...
No wonder I'm a cynic.
Et tu, Brute?!!!!
Ja, Meisie, ek ook.
Huh ???!!!!
Afrikaans? (sorry if spelling is incorrect ...)
Dos cervezas, por favor
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Yes, it's Afrikaans. In idiom it translates as - Yes, Lassie, me too.
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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Michael K. Heney
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Re: International Director/3rd VP Election Results |
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In article <1157818232.229672.225010@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, betsy_in_va wrote:
| Quote: | Anybody waiting for the following year has 7 new people to worry
about (they can't have two IDs from the same District with overlapping
terms). Not every PDG wants to run for ID, but the field gets quite full
some times.
Yes, I am quickly realizing that people who put in the effort to be DG
are probably into politics and are likely to want to advance to the
top. These aren't the sort of people who make agreements to wait their
turn...
|
Let me comment a bit about politics. I've heard it said once that some
of the most vicious politics are to be found at the local PTA. Most
people don't get into leadership positions often, and when they do,
they take it - and themselves - way too seriously. Perspective is
necessary. Yeah, I'm a District Governor - for 293 more days - but
does that matter in the real world? I'm fairly certain that my
neighbors 2 and 3 doors down don't even know what Toastmasters is -
or care about the goings-on in the district. Most organizational
politics is like that - it seems life-or-death to those who are in
the middle of it, but it's less than a non-issue anywhere else.
it helps to realize that...
I also want to make a distinction between making the effort to be
DG nd making the effort to *become* DG. I'm doing a hell of a lot
of work being DG - because I took on the responsibility and made a
committment to serve - and I'm doing that. I did not put in a lot
of effor to become DG - it was somewhat of an "I was in the wrong
place at the wrong time" situation A lot of people who are DGs
got there because they were recruited for the LGM position rather
than a strong desire to be Head Cheese. So a blanket statement like
Betsy's is, to me, a bit too broadly cast and a bit unfair. Some
people put effor into beciming DG because they think they can do
the job well, would much rather do without the politics, and don't
necessarily aspire to moving up the ladder.
Are there politics in Districts? Yes. Do District Governors have
to deal with politics? Yes. Are the DG's (and LGETs and LGMs)
*into* politics? Depends. Some are into it, and some find it
something that has to be recognized and dealt with as a reality
of leading a large group of people. You'll find examples of both
types - but again, I don't think you can make any sweeping
generalizations. |
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