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p c
Guest
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Gene Wirchenko
Guest
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 Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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"Rod Taylor" <seemysignature@nospam.ever> wrote:
| Quote: | "Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:sd7up2p3ol8biit8p9k4457oubbd6dicdo@4ax.com...
The evaluator reading the objectives can slow things down. I
have seen it almost derail an introduction, especially if the
evaluator hams it up.
Please tell us more. I've never seen or heard of anything like that. In
this part of the world, the Toastmaster mentions the project, calls on thne
evaluator to read the objectives, which are short, and this is usually done
verbatim. The Toastmasaster then introduces the speaker, although this part
is not always done well.
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I wish it were always so.
In the last club that I was a member of, there was a ham. He
injected himself into introductions. Rather than simply read the
objectives, he would often joke. This could more than double the
length of an introduction. The joking would often not be directly
related to the speech and would throw the introduction off on a
tangent.
He and some others would also use long form including an opening
("Mr. Toastmasters, guests, and fellow members"), include extraneous
materials ("The objectives of <speaker>'s speech are:" rather than
"The objective are" (We already knew who was speaking)), and also
close.
A minimally-interruptive form would have been better, as in "Mr.
Toastmaster, the objectives are <objectives>."
I wrote my introductions to short out this interruption. I wrote
them in the order of who I am, which project, the objectives, and the
introductory material specific to my speech. I would have liked to
have been able to vary the order some, but I had to put the the
interruption near the beginning so that my introduction would flow
into my speech. I had to protect myself.
| Quote: | Introductions are important and, while I agree that writing your own
probably produces the best introductions, introducing others is a useful
skill to learn. This is the most common scenario in the real world outside
Toastmasters. The role of Toastmaster provides this opportunity. Of
course,
it requires contacting the speaker ahead of the meeting and asking the
right
questions. If speakers all write their own introductions, the Toastmasters
The right question is "How do you want to be introduced?" IMNSHO.
True, but relatively few know what constitutes an effective introduction. If
the speaker writes a poor introduction, they will be introduced the way they
wish, but it may not be effective.
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True, but a bad introduction can cause trouble for the speaker,
too.
| Quote: | Even writing your own introduction is of limited value if the Toastmaster
does not prepare thoroughly and struggles with some of the words and phrases
that the speaker has so carefully prepared in their introduction.
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I write my introductions to allow for this. I include a section
before the introduction proper on how to pronounce my surname. I use
normal language (whatever that is). The toastmaster should not
outshine the speaker, so an introduction that is slightly bland is
fine. I will furnish any needed excitement.
[snip]
| Quote: | If there is more than one speaker, each speech will have a
different style, which may create a disjointed effect. <GD&RVVF
We expect different styles, sentence structures, and the like from different
speakers. We expect greater consistency from one speaker.
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I am fine with a toastmaster making modifications in consultation
with me. Deviate without consultation, and you show considerable
disrespect to me. I have spent many hours putting the speech
together, and I consider the introduction an important part of the
package.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko, ATM-S, CL
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices. |
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Gene Wirchenko
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Accepted as District and Region Conference Presenter! |
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p c <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Gene Wirchenko wrote:
p c <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
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[snip]
| Quote: | followed by iodate feedback, from the audience audience, then the tt
^^^^^^
Say what?
iodate=immediate. :)
I am a 2 finger typist and as result not the best speller. And sometimes
my spellcheker will rewrite the text without my permission (?) Imagine tat!
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OK, nice embroidering.
"iodate" *is* a word and has to do with "iodine".
When casting spells, I do not bother with a spellchecker.
Fireballing a computer that dares to correct my spelling is a good
idea. (Pointing out a potential problem is one thing; creating one by
messing up a correct usage is unacceptable.) Why, yes, I have
disabled spelling correction in Word. Why do you ask?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko, ATM-S, CL
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices. |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Accepted as District and Region Conference Presenter! |
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"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:0on0q2dhhfcgc3jbcgh67d07ejrt7f05av@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
"iodate" *is* a word and has to do with "iodine".
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Which leads to periodic acid, with a different pronunciation (per-iodic)
that has always caused me to hesitate.
--
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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| Quote: | In the last club that I was a member of, there was a ham. He
injected himself into introductions. Rather than simply read the
objectives, he would often joke. This could more than double the
length of an introduction. The joking would often not be directly
related to the speech and would throw the introduction off on a
tangent.
He and some others would also use long form including an opening
("Mr. Toastmasters, guests, and fellow members"), include extraneous
materials ("The objectives of <speaker>'s speech are:" rather than
"The objective are" (We already knew who was speaking)), and also
close.
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I just saw this happen last night! It doesn't seem like it would be
offensive, but it was. The problem was the introductions went on and on
and on and on. Too bad we don;t have one of those hooks like vaudeville
theaters had to get performers off the stage...
I used to write introductions for my speeches, but stopped about a year
ago. My clubs are too relazed, and it just didn't flow well with the
rest of the meeting. Also, the toastmasters seemed to resent it. Often
they would read what I had written with a bit of a sneer, or sometimes
they'd stumble over words.
One person in my club has a really annoying habit (a PDG, so nobody can
do anything about it). She makes up introductions out of whole cloth.
She will tell little anecdotes or claim work histories that aere
somehow related to the speech... unfortunately they are 100% baloney
and the speaker never knows what outrageous claim or story is about to
be attached to him. |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Accepted as District and Region Conference Presenter! |
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| LOL to both of you! |
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p c
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Accepted as Distrct and Region Conference Presenter! |
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by the way, what district, what region, and what are the date and
location of each conference? |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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"betsy_in_va" <b7760@keogan.com> wrote in message
news:1168173285.050415.29300@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
In the last club that I was a member of, there was a ham. He
injected himself into introductions. Rather than simply read the
objectives, he would often joke. This could more than double the
length of an introduction. The joking would often not be directly
related to the speech and would throw the introduction off on a
tangent.
He and some others would also use long form including an opening
("Mr. Toastmasters, guests, and fellow members"), include extraneous
materials ("The objectives of <speaker>'s speech are:" rather than
"The objective are" (We already knew who was speaking)), and also
close.
I just saw this happen last night! It doesn't seem like it would be
offensive, but it was. The problem was the introductions went on and on
and on and on. Too bad we don;t have one of those hooks like vaudeville
theaters had to get performers off the stage...
I used to write introductions for my speeches, but stopped about a year
ago. My clubs are too relazed, and it just didn't flow well with the
rest of the meeting. Also, the toastmasters seemed to resent it. Often
they would read what I had written with a bit of a sneer, or sometimes
they'd stumble over words.
|
Interesting! I can't imagine that sort of thing happening here. Such
behaviour would be considered to be deliberately offensive and the General
Evaluator would almost certainly take a strong line on it. Maybe, like the
Roast, it's a cultural thing that some groups find acceptable and others
consider insulting.
Stumbling over words may be the result of inadequate preparation. In
fairness to the Toastmaster, an introduction given to her/him at the
beginning of the meeting may not allow sufficient time as the Toastmaster is
often busy with last minute programme changes and the like.
Other than that and General Evaluator's role, I would have very strong words
after the meeting with anyone that I felt had deliberately spoilt an
introduction that I had carefully prepared.
The Toastmaster may have a major role, but s/he is not the star of the show.
Their job is to support the speakers by providing the most effective
introduction, irrespective of who prepares it.
| Quote: | One person in my club has a really annoying habit (a PDG, so nobody can
do anything about it). She makes up introductions out of whole cloth.
She will tell little anecdotes or claim work histories that aere
somehow related to the speech... unfortunately they are 100% baloney
and the speaker never knows what outrageous claim or story is about to
be attached to him.
|
I don't see anything that gives a PDG (or anyone else) the right to do that
if the speaker doesn't approve. Personal idiosyncrasies have their limits in
terms of acceptability.
--
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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betsy_in_va
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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| Quote: | Interesting! I can't imagine that sort of thing happening here. Such
behaviour would be considered to be deliberately offensive and the General
Evaluator would almost certainly take a strong line on it. Maybe, like the
Roast, it's a cultural thing that some groups find acceptable and others
consider insulting.
|
This particular club does have a lot of members who are into power
trips. I have a feeling it may have something to do with being near
D.C. Traffic is unusually aggressive around here too... and for no good
reason. The aggressive drivers don't get to work faster, they just seem
to be on a power trip. The GEs in this club don't comment on it, I
think the general attitude is that speakers appear pompous if they
prepare their own introductions and deserve what they get. There are
exceptions, of course, if there is a specific reason the speaker felt
he needed to write his own intro.
Actually, as I write this I realize it IS a club culture issue. In this
club, the toastmaster really does feel he is the star of the meeting.
We once had a toastmaster who refused to let a third speaker speak,
even though the speaker was on the VPEs schedule and showed up with a
speech.
The speaker protested and took the matter to the club business meeting,
during which the toastmaster stated she was acting within her rights
because it was "her meeting," she had sent the agenda out in advance
clearly listing only 2 speakers and nobody had protested it, and she
"didn't feel" like listening to 3 speakers. The club officers decided
the toastmaster was right (although they did make a point of
rescheduling the speaker right away). The speaker later quit the club,
by the way.
| Quote: |
Stumbling over words may be the result of inadequate preparation. In
fairness to the Toastmaster, an introduction given to her/him at the
beginning of the meeting may not allow sufficient time as the Toastmaster is
often busy with last minute programme changes and the like.
|
Sometimes that might be the case, but I it's also a very handy
passive/aggressive maneuver.
| Quote: |
One person in my club has a really annoying habit (a PDG, so nobody can
do anything about it). She makes up introductions out of whole cloth.
.... |
| Quote: | I don't see anything that gives a PDG (or anyone else) the right to do that
if the speaker doesn't approve. Personal idiosyncrasies have their limits in
terms of acceptability.
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To be fair, I don't know if anyone has ever told her they don't
approve. She only did this to me once--I didn't see it coming and I
don't think I said anything at the time. I was embarrassed, but I
didn't want to make a big deal about it.
The story she made up to introduce my speech was that "Betsy recently
gave a presentation at a symposium, teaching engineers how to use their
skills to build sophisticated movie theaters in their own basements."
It was a logical and supportive introduction, but it wasn't true.
I would have preferred the much more boring (but accurate) "Betsy will
show us how to build a movie theater in your basement." But, I'm at
fault, too... I didn't tell her. If she happens to be toastmaster when
I'm speaking again, though, I will. |
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Eric Matto
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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| Quote: | Actually, as I write this I realize it IS a club culture issue. In this
club, the toastmaster really does feel he is the star of the meeting.
We once had a toastmaster who refused to let a third speaker speak,
even though the speaker was on the VPEs schedule and showed up with a
speech.
The speaker protested and took the matter to the club business meeting,
during which the toastmaster stated she was acting within her rights
because it was "her meeting," she had sent the agenda out in advance
clearly listing only 2 speakers and nobody had protested it, and she
"didn't feel" like listening to 3 speakers. The club officers decided
the toastmaster was right (although they did make a point of
rescheduling the speaker right away). The speaker later quit the club,
by the way.
|
Unbelievable. I'm sure they took as much time or more discussing this issue
at the business session as the speaker and evaluator would have taken
instead.
--
Eric Matto, DTM, PDG
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Treasurer, Voice of Experience Advanced TM Club #583400-60
Member, Creekside TD Club #864603-60 |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:44:56 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> wrote:
| Quote: | $ In the last club that I was a member of, there was a ham. He
$injected himself into introductions. Rather than simply read the
$objectives, he would often joke. This could more than double the
$length of an introduction. The joking would often not be directly
$related to the speech and would throw the introduction off on a
$tangent.
$
$ He and some others would also use long form including an opening
$("Mr. Toastmasters, guests, and fellow members"), include extraneous
$materials ("The objectives of <speaker>'s speech are:" rather than
$"The objective are" (We already knew who was speaking)), and also
$close.
|
If the General Evaluator is doing his job, he should be ppicking up on
that in his evaluation.
The way I do the objectives is pretty much the same way you describe for
doing yours.
"Mr. Toastmaster, the speaker/"Bob" is doing project #XX from the XX
manual. There are thee objectives: 1) learn how to smile under
pressure, 2) learn not to lean on the lectern, and 3) the length of the
speech is 5 - 7 minutes.
If the timer is new, I may insturct the timer to give the green light at
5, the yellow light at 6, and the red light at 7. In my clubs, the
experienced members know the common convention--green at the lower end
of the range, red at the top end of the range, and yellow half way
between the two.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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|
"John Fleming, DTM" <nospam@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:fss2q25j3q0n245ubc4f4gme7ekcuko290@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:44:56 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> wrote:
$ In the last club that I was a member of, there was a ham. He
$injected himself into introductions. Rather than simply read the
$objectives, he would often joke. This could more than double the
$length of an introduction. The joking would often not be directly
$related to the speech and would throw the introduction off on a
$tangent.
$
$ He and some others would also use long form including an opening
$("Mr. Toastmasters, guests, and fellow members"), include extraneous
$materials ("The objectives of <speaker>'s speech are:" rather than
$"The objective are" (We already knew who was speaking)), and also
$close.
If the General Evaluator is doing his job, he should be ppicking up on
that in his evaluation.
The way I do the objectives is pretty much the same way you describe for
doing yours.
"Mr. Toastmaster, the speaker/"Bob" is doing project #XX from the XX
manual. There are thee objectives: 1) learn how to smile under
pressure, 2) learn not to lean on the lectern, and 3) the length of the
speech is 5 - 7 minutes.
If the timer is new, I may insturct the timer to give the green light at
5, the yellow light at 6, and the red light at 7. In my clubs, the
experienced members know the common convention--green at the lower end
of the range, red at the top end of the range, and yellow half way
between the two.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
|
In my clubs, the Timer states the timing and when the lights will come on at
the beginning of the meeting. For speakers, s/he will say something like,
"Most speeches are 5-7 minutes, in which case the green light will go on at
5 minutes, etc. The speakers will give me their times at the break."
Joy |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
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On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:55:23 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, "Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
| Quote: | $"John Fleming, DTM" <nospam@sprynet.com> wrote in message
$news:fss2q25j3q0n245ubc4f4gme7ekcuko290@4ax.com...
$> The way I do the objectives is pretty much the same way you describe for
$> doing yours.
$
$> "Mr. Toastmaster, the speaker/"Bob" is doing project #XX from the XX
$> manual. There are thee objectives: 1) learn how to smile under
$> pressure, 2) learn not to lean on the lectern, and 3) the length of the
$> speech is 5 - 7 minutes.
$
$> If the timer is new, I may insturct the timer to give the green light at
$> 5, the yellow light at 6, and the red light at 7. In my clubs, the
$> experienced members know the common convention--green at the lower end
$> of the range, red at the top end of the range, and yellow half way
$> between the two.
$In my clubs, the Timer states the timing and when the lights will come on at
$the beginning of the meeting. For speakers, s/he will say something like,
$"Most speeches are 5-7 minutes, in which case the green light will go on at
$5 minutes, etc. The speakers will give me their times at the break."
|
Obviously the common practice is different in our parts of the world.
Often, the Toastmaster will get the speech timings and include them in
the program. That way, if there is a longer project or two, other
timings on the program can be adjusted to accomodate.
In that case, reading the timing instructions is simply a formality, and
a reminder to the timer.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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Joy
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
|
|
"John Fleming, DTM" <nospam@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:net5q29pvuh15s6hcpuskl9cn85ok55ldm@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:55:23 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, "Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
$"John Fleming, DTM" <nospam@sprynet.com> wrote in message
$news:fss2q25j3q0n245ubc4f4gme7ekcuko290@4ax.com...
$> The way I do the objectives is pretty much the same way you describe
for
$> doing yours.
$
$> "Mr. Toastmaster, the speaker/"Bob" is doing project #XX from the XX
$> manual. There are thee objectives: 1) learn how to smile under
$> pressure, 2) learn not to lean on the lectern, and 3) the length of
the
$> speech is 5 - 7 minutes.
$
$> If the timer is new, I may insturct the timer to give the green light
at
$> 5, the yellow light at 6, and the red light at 7. In my clubs, the
$> experienced members know the common convention--green at the lower end
$> of the range, red at the top end of the range, and yellow half way
$> between the two.
$In my clubs, the Timer states the timing and when the lights will come
on at
$the beginning of the meeting. For speakers, s/he will say something
like,
$"Most speeches are 5-7 minutes, in which case the green light will go on
at
$5 minutes, etc. The speakers will give me their times at the break."
Obviously the common practice is different in our parts of the world.
Often, the Toastmaster will get the speech timings and include them in
the program. That way, if there is a longer project or two, other
timings on the program can be adjusted to accomodate.
In that case, reading the timing instructions is simply a formality, and
a reminder to the timer.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
|
Reading the timing instructions also informs any visitors as to what is
going on. Even visiting Toastmasters can be thrown off without this,
because not all clubs time Table Topics the same. I am under the impression
that most clubs use the lights at 1, 1:30 and 2 minutes for Table Topics.
However, the club I mentioned uses timing of 1:30, 1:45 and 2 minutes. A
club I visited in Australia uses 0:50, 1 minute and 1:10. Since visiting
Toastmasters are often invited to participate in Table Topics, it is a
*very* good idea to make the timing clear before Table Topics begins.
Joy
"If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an
empty desk? -- Jay Brand, cognitive psychologist |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: Re: effective introductions |
|
|
On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:26:16 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, "Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
| Quote: | $Reading the timing instructions also informs any visitors as to what is
$going on. Even visiting Toastmasters can be thrown off without this,
$because not all clubs time Table Topics the same. I am under the impression
$that most clubs use the lights at 1, 1:30 and 2 minutes for Table Topics.
$However, the club I mentioned uses timing of 1:30, 1:45 and 2 minutes. A
$club I visited in Australia uses 0:50, 1 minute and 1:10. Since visiting
$Toastmasters are often invited to participate in Table Topics, it is a
$*very* good idea to make the timing clear before Table Topics begins.
|
Agreed 100%.
I think the rationale for many clubs to use 1:00, 1:30, and 2:00 for
Table Topics is that it is the contest timing.
That said, the topic master is quite free to use whatever timings he or
she wants.
From time to time, I do what I call "sound bite" table topics, where the
idea is to get your main idea into a short sound bite similar to a radio
or TV ad. For these, the timings are green at 0:20, yellow at 0:25 and
we clap you down at 0:30.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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